In today’s episode of “Commercial Real Estate Investing with Don & Eden” we have guest John Casmon. He’s founded Casmon Capital Group where he primarily invests in Chicago & Cincinnati. Together, he and his business partner/wife have helped families invest in multifamily apartments to create a passive income stream and tax benefits without the hassles of becoming landlords.
In today’s episode, John discusses his partnership and business goals, his big deal in Texas, shares a variety of resources to learn your market & discusses important factors when analyzing a deal. He also explains why multifamily apartments are the main focus of his business strategy, his different types of value adds & views on the mobile home parks asset class.
- Importance of Building Relationships
- How to Analyze Unfamiliar Markets
- Data Points to Focus On
- Knowing When to Scale Up
Connect with John:
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00:00 Hey guys, this is Don and my guest today on the show is John Casmon. John is a real estate investor and he’s investing primarily in Chicago and Cincinnati and he’s in control of over 920 units, which is quite a lot of units. So I’m very excited to have him on the show today because he’s one of the most experienced investors out there and I’m also, John was kind enough to share his resources with us. So at the end of the episode I’m going to read a few websites that you want to check out in case you want to do some research and find out some more information about the multifamily deal you’re looking at. So we’re always happy to give you guys that information. So stay tuned.
00:46 Welcome to the Commercial Real Estate Investing podcast with Don and Eden where we cover all aspects of real estate investing with special attention to off-market strategies.
01:03 Hey John, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me on.
01:07 Of course. I think you deserve it. I heard you own or in control of over 920 units.
01:14 Yeah. Were general partners of 920 units across the country, primarily in Texas, Florida, South Carolina and Cincinnati. And continue to grow that and working with investors. So excited about everything.
01:27 That’s great. But I know when you started it wasn’t always this way, so now you’re a full time real estate investor, but when you started, you were doing that part time. I know you’re investing since 2012 if my records are right.
01:41 Yeah, absolutely. We started off part time. I started with the house hack. We had a two unit property, lived in one unit, rented out the other and you know, from there we bought a three unit building. A couple of years later we bought an eight unit building the next year and just continued to build the portfolio. And eventually it got to the point where we were running out of our own money and we’re talking to a lot of people who were interested in investing in real estate but didn’t have the time to really learn everything that we had learned in the us on their own. And at that moment we kind of realized, Hey, there might be a great opportunity to partner with these people where we can bring them in along side of us on deals. They can be passive, they can, get all the, you know, the income that comes from being an investor without having to actually be the landlord and take care of the property themselves. So that kind of really opened us up to different ways of expanding and growing our portfolio. Yeah. So when you say we, who exactly are you talking about? Oh, my wife. You know, I don’t make any decisions without checking in with the boss.
02:41 Yeah. Just checking in with the boss. That’s, that’s true. So when you, when you first made the transition to real estate, I know you were working in a different job, a day job and then how, how did your wife take it? So how, how was she with, with that idea?
02:57 Yeah, I mean it’s the, it was truly a partnership thing. So it wasn’t like I had to convince her or anything like that. I know some folks go to those situations, but you know, we were always aligned on the lifestyle we wanted to create a lifestyle, we wanted to live the environment we went to raise our kids in. So as we had conversations about how to create it, real estate was a big part of it. So that first property, I mean we lived in that property, lived in one unit. We lived in our property for seven years. So I mean we lived basically in an apartment for seven years in and built equity and continue to grow. So that was something we were always aligned on. And I think that’s really important. If you’re going to invest in real estate you want to make sure your partner is on board with that.
03:38 So she was completely aligned with it. We had our roles in the business, so she did certain things. I did certain things and we kind of use that to grow the portfolio. So we were both, you know, doing it kind of on the side and we have a smaller portfolio, you can do that. I think when you get to the point where you really want to scale and you want to start working with other people, that’s where you start to have to shift roles, responsibilities and dedicate more time into the business. Yeah. So when did you feel that things are getting bigger and that you, you’re, you just scaled up a little bit? You know, we bought the eight unit building and that was our first commercial property. We hired a professional management company to over see it and we’re still pretty involved in the process from an asset management standpoint.
04:22 But going through that process gave me the confidence and, you know, the readiness to start moving forward into some of the larger properties. So I think for me, you know, cutting the teeth on something that was commercial but not overwhelming, that gave us a chance to learn to work with property management companies, understand the way they work, the way they underwrite, the way they manage and just really take that experience and they use that to kind of build and take the next step into kind of larger commercial properties. Okay. So yeah, let’s talk about that. So when you’re saying large commercial properties- I’m assuming you’re talking about multifamily units over 80 units or 90 units, right? Apartment buildings. That’s right. Yeah. So tell us about the first deal that you had of, of that scale. Yeah, so I mean, we were looking for properties for awhile and knew just like now the market’s been kinda tight and we were looking for properties where we could deliver strong returns for our investors and we’re having a hard time finding it.
05:23 So we ended up partnering with a friend, a gentleman that I had met and he was in a similar boat, but we just kinda had a conversation and I expressed that if he found something that made sense, wanting to love to review it, and if the deal looked good, we’d be interested in coming on as partners and maybe bringing some of our partners on as well. Because at that point point we had been talking to investors for a little bit of time and you know, they were kind of getting itchy and wanted to get in on a deal that all the great things we have been telling them about multifamily investing and we were struggling to find that deal. So we ended up partnering with that investor and that was 192 units out in San Antonio, Texas. Oh, that’s a big, that’s a big property. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it was a win, win situation because that was the big property for them as well. Right. So that was their first very large apartment deal where they kind of word the, the leads. So we came in as general partners and we help them with you know, kind of some of the marketing from the investor relations and you know, that was kind of our foray into the larger commercial apartment space.
06:29 Okay. So do you feel like you got into the deal because your investors got itchy or did you actually spot the opportunity there?
06:37 Well, I mean I think it comes down to building relationships first of all. Right. So for us, we would not have done this with just anyone. This was an individual that we had gotten to know over the course of probably about nine months. And you know, we’ve met him in person, we’ve sat, we’ve had dinner with them. We’ve had various conversations at that time. I had just launched our podcast “Target Market Insights” and he was one of the early guests on this show and it actually came up while we were talking right after we recorded the episode. So, you know, he was someone that we respected, we, we understood how he was looking at deals. He had been a general partner and other deals as well. In a large space. So he had experienced that. He knew what he was doing from that perspective. So I think we, there was a level of comfort with with that individual that gave us comfort and moving forward and, and being a partner there that I don’t think we would have had no matter what our investors were thinking or looking for.
07:33 Okay. So let’s talk about the numbers for that deal. So what was the purchase price? Find my ask and, and what was the value at plan and everything there?
07:41 Yeah, 16 point $1 million purchase price. We invested a little more than a million bucks into renovations. Value adds a couple things. Interior innovations on that property. We changed up the exterior landscape changed out the siding. There was a who’s that? There was a, a second area that was kind of like a hot tub at one point. I, I don’t know why, but it was a hot tub and we actually fill that in and made a kind of a barbecue pit area. So looking at different amenities that we can add. We added in private fenced in yards for the first floor units and then we added some technology packages as well.
08:24 I see. Okay. So basically you focused on improving the lifestyle and the, comfortability and the feeling of, of the people that are going to live in that,
08:33 The apartment, right? Yeah, yeah. A combination of interior renovations too. You know, just have a more attractive home, a more premium home, and also adding amenities and improving the amenities of the property. And then also just the aesthetics. Right. So from the exterior, just improving the aesthetics with a scheme of brand colors that really popped in, allow the property to stand out and photos and in person and felt more warm. It felt like a great home environment.
09:01 Yeah. So when you guys bought the property at $16.1, what was the, the vacancy rate roughly? If you don’t remember? That’s fine.
09:11 Yeah. I mean, I believe it was 92% occupied, so we’re on a 7% or 8% vacancy rate.
09:16 Okay. And so the, the rents where they, where they maxed up or there were still some space?
09:22 Well, I’ll tell you, this is the great thing about our strategy. So we do value add investing, right? So I just talked about all the stuff we did to it, but the beauty is you can buy the property based on its current operations. So it was making money and it was doing okay for what it was and what we saw was an opportunity for the property to perform even better. So almost like a private equity firm coming into it, looking at the current operations, but knowing that if we inject this some capital into the right things, we could really drive the returns. And that’s kind of what we did. So it was for the vintage of the property, it was achieving pretty good rinse, but there was an opportunity to improve those units and take it from being a 1983 product and actually upfitting the countertops and appliances and the flooring and the fixtures and updating all of these things where we could compete with some of the class A properties and some of the 2015 & 2016 builds. Now we have something that’s a bit more attractive and because it is still a little bit of an older property it can’t quite achieve the rents of those new construction projects. But it’s certainly gonna stand above the properties that were its like a B-class class.
10:40 That’s exactly it. That’s exactly it. So it’s a nice sweet spot for us to play in where it’s a better property than the other, you know, 1980 construction properties that are there, but it’s going to be more affordable than the new construction. So for a renter, what they really care about, they don’t care about the year of property was built, they care about what my apartment looks like, you know, does it have nice countertops? Does it have a washer dryer in unit, does it have a stainless steel appliances? Those kinds of things is what they care about. And then also what other amenities are there. Right. So that’s what we, that’s what we did with our business plan and that’s worked out really well for us.
11:15 Very interesting. So let, let me, let me dig a little bit deeper on that deal specifically. Cause it’s, it’s very interesting the things you were saying. So as far as the rents, the 1983 product that was out there in the market, what was it by the way, that deal, you said, where was it? Yeah, San Antonio. Oh, San Antonio Okay. So the, the, the other products are the B class, in that market at the time. How much were they renting for roughly? And so where did you put your property in comparison with the A class property? So you, you were right in the middle, you’re saying, right?
11:48 Yeah, I mean, so I think what we’d like to do, right, and for your listeners here don’t understand part, what you want to do is you never want to have the most expensive property out there. So we were very conscious to manage our renovation schedule and understanding what kind of rents we could get. So we looked at those class a project properties and said, okay, if they’re charging, and I’m just going to throw rough numbers here, they’re charging $1,300 in rent or $1,400 in rent. If we fit, have our property with similar finishes. If we do units with similar finishes to this class A property, then we can expect to get something a little less than that. Now again, because that’s the class A they knew, bill knew everything. Maybe you get $1100, maybe you get $1200, but take a couple, take 100 bucks off to, you know, 10- 20%, something like that.
12:36 Take that off of the class, but you also have to compare that to class B because again, you want to make sure you’re not above the market to the point where you’re in no man’s land. So you wanna make sure that you’re providing something of value and that value is ‘Hey, if you can get a class a product at a class B price’, that’s how you know you’ve hit the sweet spot. So you want to make sure that you’re still able to compete with those other properties and it’s okay to be at a premium to some of them as long as your renovations and the property itself is above is above kind of the offerings that those properties have.
13:12 What would you say the price of the other B properties was? The same price, like $1100, $1200
13:18 A more the, thousand dollar range rights. I mean they kind of depends on where you start your property. So in this scenario, let’s say that they’re all getting similar rents, but there are a couple of comp properties that I’ve seen some upgrades and those properties that have been upgraded are seeing rent premiums of a $100-$150. That lets you know that Hey, if we were to do certain renovations, we can improve the rents, we let them this property.
13:42 Yeah. And so when you got into the deal, what was the rent that was charged by the, by the previous owner?
13:48 I don’t know. I’d have to look back on that one, man.
13:50 Yeah. Okay. Yeah, of course. You can’t remember everything. But that’s very interesting. So I think the, the ability to really look at a deal and see the small things you can do, but still looking at it objectively. Cause sometimes, you know, when I look at deals, I want them to work, you know, cause I want to close on the deal and I want the deal to work. So I’m not really looking at it objectively when I give it to somebody else that I know and I have them look at it then, you know, they look at it in a different way. And so I think looking at a deal and knowing that you could get what it is you’re trying to get, you know, and add the extra value and still make good profit. I think it’s great. And you guys really noticed that on that specific property. And I think that’s, that’s amazing. That’s beautiful.
14:33 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think ultimately when you talk about underwriting, right? And when you’re looking at these numbers, I mean, you have to allow the numbers to tell the story, right? You can’t get too fixated on, you know, what you want to happen on that deal in particular, you know, like th the numbers they made sense and sometimes you have to tweak it, right? I mean, it’s not say that, ‘Hey, if you underwrite a deal and the numbers don’t work, run away.’ I think what it means is you have to rethink your business plan. Sometimes you step back and say, okay, well what will happen if we did this? Or what will happen if we, if we didn’t upgrade every unit, what if we only did these units? So I think you can play around with scenarios, but the numbers are the numbers that you don’t want to force the numbers to work. That’s where you get into a lot of trouble. So you definitely wanna make sure you stay diligent to the numbers. But you can stay somewhat open-minded in your business plan as long as the numbers are dictating the proof points of what your business plan actually is.
15:28 Definitely. Okay. So let’s talk about your other deals that you’ve done since that big deal over there. So have you changed your strategies, you know, during the years with looking at properties differently and doing other things that, you know, you, you haven’t done in that specific deal?
15:46 Ah, I mean I think generally speaking, value add is our approach. So we’re always looking to buy a property that is cash flowing day one. That’s, that’s a core principle of ours. We like cash flowing assets day one. And what we want to do is want to find ways to add value. So that is a core principle of our business and the way we operate. So some of the things that have changed since then is we, we look at our loans. So the loan kind of is a deal by deal thing. So we’re always balancing the loan product that we want to put on there and the exit strategy that we place. And we’re always looking at the market, you know, the market dynamics, you know, how much room is there to improve rents you know, what can the market take, what will be too much, what’s the story of the asset and how do we come up with the business plan that best matches the property itself, the community, and then what renters in the area are looking for.
16:39 Yeah. So when you’re looking at a new market or a market that you don’t know, where would you look or what is the data that you’re trying to get?
16:46 Yeah, there’s a ton of data that you’re looking for, but ultimately the main thing that you’re looking for is you want to understand where demand is, not just today, but tomorrow. You want to know how future demand compares to current demand and the, the more recent realities. So a lot of people will tell you, ‘Hey, you know, I’m, you know, this market saw 5% rent growth last year.’ That’s great. It does not mean it’s going to see 5% rent growth in the future, which is what you really care about. So we try to look at the different data points to figure out what’s demand currently and what can we realistically expect it to be in the near future through life of our business plan. Now, none of us have a crystal ball, but we try to look at different data points to determine that. So what are some of those points?
17:31 Look at population. So you want to understand population population growth in particular. Are people leaving an area or are they moving into an area? Jobs, job growth. We’re looking at, you know, what jobs are there, are they growing? Are there more jobs being added to an area or people, you know, more companies leaving the area. Job diversification. So, you know, I lived in Detroit for four and a half years and I worked in the automotive industry. So I can tell you how important it is to have a diverse industry from a, from a jobs perspective, you never want to have one city or one market solely dependent on one industry because if something happens to that industry, you know, obviously you can suffer the consequences of it. Outside of that, you are looking at the ease of doing business and you’re looking at landlord, tenant friendliness.
18:20 So how easy is it to evict or to, you know, get a tenant out of if they’re not paying their rent. So you want to understand those different components. So we look at all of that, but ultimately, you know, we’re trying to figure out demand. So the last factor we look at there is more in the multifamily space. We’ll look at as supply and demand. New construction is new construction coming on board. You know, what is the absorption rate for that? So absorption rate is essentially the, the frequency or the amount of demand for the new apartments that are coming on board. So you want to make sure that there’s more demand than properties being built because there’s more properties, more units being built, then demand, then that’s going to force everyone’s rent to go down. So you may not be able to actually implement your business plan if you are trying to raise rents.
19:09 Yeah. So where do you gather all the data on? I know that you, you probably gathered from many, many places like I know CoStar, you can look at things over there, you can look at things that Reonomy. You can look at best basis. There are so many, you know, things you could look at and report. So you could read. So for our listeners, people that are trying to get into real estate investing and they want to know where you gather the data, what would you say are the best places to do that?
19:33 Yeah, so there’s a lot of different resources out there. I just did a presentation. I’ve put a whole list together. I’d be happy to email this to you or share with your audience as a download. But a handful that I’ll go off the top of my head. You mentioned bus places. That’s a great one. Best places done that is a, is a great resource there. The US census census.gov it’s a great website, great forum for understanding both population and job growth. So it does have that information on there. On the jobs, it’s more, I think it’s a Bureau of Labor is the website to go check out for, for the jobs there. And yeah, I mean, unfortunately there’s not like one site that’s going to just give you all of those things in a pretty package. What I will say is that brokers to now this information available.
20:20 So if you’re talking to brokers, that’s something that you can ask them. Typically they’ll, you’ll see some of this information in their offering memorandum. The other places you know, talking to, to local officials, but also reach out to any kind of Economic Development Council. So if you’re looking at a specific market, a great resource is going to be that Local Economic Development Council, Chamber Of Commerce. And you can just flat out ask them, Hey you know, trying to get some information in regards to population growth and job growth in this market, new construction and what developments are being planned and they can have some of that information available to you as well. Nice. These are some great tips. So what is your focus for the future? I know that multifamily market is kind of tight right now that, you know, the way you said it before.
21:11 So what are you doing in this type market? Are you still looking at multifamily deals or, you’re looking at different asset classes? No, we stay focused on multifamily. You know, I know a lot of people are looking at other asset classes and there’s certainly opportunities in different asset classes and I think that’s the beauty of real estate is there’s always going to be some opportunities, but multifamily from a fundamental standpoint is something we really like. And I’ll tell you why. First of all, it’s housing. So everyone’s always going to need a place to live. That’s something that technology can’t replace. It’s pretty straight forward. You know, you need a place to stay. Two- Affordable housing is getting tough in this country. You know, prices are going up, rents are going up, home ownership is going down. You know, they’re trying to increase salaries and wages, but between the debt that most people have, whether it be called student loan debt or other debt, it’s really difficult for, for your average person to come up with 20%- 25% down for a have to buy a new home.
22:09 So many people are saving. The other thing is people are getting married later in life. So young people are not getting married in their thirties. They’re having children later in life and no one wants to own a ranch home when there’s 24 years old live in by themselves. So most of them want to be in the city. They won’t be downtown. They would be close to the action. So you’re seeing more people choose to rent out a lifestyle. Same thing on the flip side of that equation, you have more older renters now where they don’t want the burden of being a homeowner. They’d rather rent call the main has got it fixed, whatever they need, fixed, live, close to the city, close to colleges, universities, things like that. And they’re happy to, to rent as opposed to owning a home. So I think the view of what home ownership means has changed significantly in this country where he used to be kind of a, the goal for many people.
22:58 Now it’s almost a burden, you know, to, to be a homeowner. You can’t move around the country, you can’t take a new job, you can’t do the different things. So people actually prefer a lot of people prefer to rent. So because of all those things, I still think multifamily is a strong place to be. The core for us is we, we buy based off our fundamentals. So if you’re buying based off of fundamentals, you’re a little less concerned with the economy. Because I could sell whenever I want to sell for the most part, as long as I put a loan product on the proper property, that gives me flexibility on the exit. We’re buying cash flowing assets day one. So I’m not trying to flip a project or, you know, do all these other things to try to figure out how to make my money.
23:38 It’s not new construction or development. You know, so we’re going in and we are particularly investing capital into the property when and where it makes sense. We have the ability to slow down or rev up that process as we see fit. So I still think multifamily is a great place to be. You need to be smart and you need to be diligent as you’re going through the process. But if you’re buying cash flow that properties and you have proper reserves and you put the proper loan on it, that gives you flexibility and I think you’ll still do fine even in an economic downturn.
24:11 Yeah, definitely. And I think a lot of things you discussed before are so interesting and so true because the people that rent today are primarily millennials. And then we were exposed to, and that’s what happened to me. We were exposed to the purple book or, or you know, some other people call it ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’. I just call it the purple book because people just know what I’m talking about and then that book describes that owning a home in America and in general is more of a liability than, than an asset. And so you see the impact of, of Robert Kiyosaki’s words, you know, to the people where you’d see that everybody would prefer to rent and not to own. And you’re, you’re so right about the things you said. Cause I had the same, the same concept right now when I was debating where I’m going to move if I was gonna move to another, a condo or an apartment or a, or a single family house in Miami, that’s, that’s where I’m from.
25:04 And then I was thinking the exact same thing I was thinking about. Do I? I’m single. So I, I’m, I’m not married, I don’t have kids. So I was thinking, you know, the exact same thing even though I’m 30 I, I still don’t want to, don’t want to live in, in a, in a single family house, you know, when I can live downtown, close to everything and, and close to my friends and close to young people, you know. So, so the things you mentioned are, are very true. But despite that, I’m going to ask a question regarding what she said about the affordable housing. So since the crisis of affordable housing is not going anywhere anytime soon, what do you think about, I see a lot of, a lot of chatter on a mobile home parks and the affordability of, of basically living in a mobile home in comparison to other things. And so a lot of investors and trust and funds are buying them right now. So what do you think about that asset class? So have you ever looked into it?
26:03 Yeah, I mean, you know, we, we interview a lot of people and we have talked to multiple people who are focused on mobile home parks and we know a lot of other city caters and operators and investors who, who are in that space. We get it, we understand it at a high level. It’s just, you know, for us, when I think about mobile home parks I think that it makes sense for certain people. I just, I personally haven’t seen a reason for us to pivot our strategy. You know I think that there are a couple of different types of people here and I’m not saying one is right, but we like to try to focus on one thing and really get great at it and spend a lot of time and energy to excel and get as great as we can be on something.
26:51 And at that point then we would consider other approaches, other asset classes or whatever. But for us, I just don’t like I’m concerned about the shiny object syndrome for us. So we just prefer to focus in on what we’re doing and not try to chase yields. Cause I think unless you truly want to be in a mobile home parks or you know, still a self storage or some of these other things, I think what’s happening is people are chasing yields are chasing deals as opposed to really trying to lock in on what they do. And I’m not saying one is right or one is wrong. If you have the ability to do that, the great for us, you know, I think we prefer to just kind of focus in one asset class as opposed to trying to be a Jack of all trades.
27:35 Yeah. And that makes sense because you’re already in that asset class and you have the connections, you have the knowledge and you’ve done it before the investors been brokers, everything is at your hand. So what would you, what would you think about a person who’s trying to get into multifamily investing right now at this market at this point? Yeah, I will tell you the same thing I tell everybody. So if you want to get into it wonky clarity on what you want to do if you want to kind of buy large apartment buildings or things like that, then or if you just want to, you just heard of all commercial investing and you want to get into the space. What I would say is the best thing to do is find someone who’s doing it and see if you can be a limited partner.
28:20 Because being a limited partner is going to allow you to learn more real time. You, you have money in the deal. So you’ve got skin in the game and you can ask the questions that come up and you can gain experience, confidence and credibility that’s gonna make it much easier to grow. And that’s something that will put you in position to be very successful. So we talk a lot about the kind of how to grow into the space and do it where you don’t have so many things pushing against you with the learning curve is very high. And I think ultimately what will happen is, you know, people get into this, they read a book and they get excited and you know, it just becomes very tough. It’s very difficult to go out and just buy a property in a very competitive market.
29:04 And you don’t want to be the person who inadvertently overpays for something and you know, not be in a position to make that money back or implement your business plan. So I would say trying to find a deal where you can come in is a great way to start from there. You can become a general partner or become an operator yourself. But then also think about what you really want to do. Because for many people, they want to invest in real estate, especially commercial real estate because they want the benefits that come with it. You want the passive income, you want the tax benefits, you want to diversify your portfolio. What you don’t want is a second job. You want to be chasing down tenants for rent. You don’t want to be, you know, fixing toilets that are leaking in the night. So, you know, just make sure you’re clear on what you’re signing up for and what you’re going to get out of it. The larger properties give you the ability to be an investor and the smaller properties, you know, give you a chance to be a landlord.
30:01 Yeah. But I guess a lot of people would say that you also learn a lot when you deal with the small properties. You learn what you don’t want to do.
30:09 I think many people can learn from me telling you, you don’t want to change toilets though. So you can, there’s a lot of ways to learn, right? You can learn by getting punched in the face or you can learn from someone saying, Hey, that probably hurts. You just don’t walk into it. Right. Yeah. It’s up to you about how you want to learn.
30:23 Yeah, definitely. That’s very smart. Okay. So John Casmon, what are the best ways to connect with you in case anybody wants to get in touch?
30:31 Yeah. So if you’re interested in multifamily or you want to grow kind of from a marketing standpoint, whether it be finding deals or you want to learn more about how to find deals, how to analyze deals, how to learn more about markets or even just growing your personal brand, check out our podcast is called “Target Market Insights” and sites and it’s available anywhere podcasts are, and you can also go to our website. We have a free download, you go to casmoncapital.com/sampledeal. We have a free sample deals to get a sense of what a deal package looks like. And then if you have any questions or you want to connect with me further, you can email me at firstname.lastname@example.org.
31:10 Alright John, thank you very much.
31:13 Thank you. Appreciate you having me on the show.
31:15 Yup. Have a great day. Hey guys, so yes, as promised courtesy of John casmon. Here are some resources in case you want to check some critical information on multifamily deals or the market that you’re looking into. So if you want to know more about economic trends in the market, you can check out the US Census. You could check out the Bureau of Labor statistics, the Local Economic Development Council, and there’s a website called areavibes.com. So it’s area vibes.com. Okay. So if you want to know more about multifamily trends check out Colliers International Marcus and Millichap, C. B. R. E. you can always use CoStar. You could use REI reports, ALN Data, Integra Realty resources, also known as IRR. WeAreApartments.org and justicemap.org. So these are all the resources that John shared with us. I hope this is very helpful to anybody who’s trying to get into multifamily and learn more. It’s always good to know as much as you can about the market. I hope that helps. So thank you very much and I hope you enjoy the episode.
32:30 Thanks for listening to the real estate investing podcast with Don and Eden. Stay tuned for more episodes till next time.